Aaron Fox Out

[Jayboy]

To me it seems obvious the time has come for a change in leadership, how long do you let the same stale formula carry on, a problem i can see though is if tony is getting the crowds in as it is at the moment , then i suppose he would be reluctant to change that from a financial point of view

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Tony Smith cares more about making money than on ice success.

I’ve been slated consistently for saying it across social media platforms but more and more I’m proven right. Nothing will change until fans vote with their feet and wallets.

Thing is you have NOT been proven right at all have you, because there literally no way you can prove that Tony Smith cares more about profit that results can you.. the only thing with any certainty anyone can really prove is that he puts the continued security of Sheffield Steelers club as a business over failure and on ice success at any cost.
I know for a fact he would love to see silverware every year, but I also know that if he doesn't run the Steelers as a business we dont even have a club!
Whether at some point he sees the need to replace Fox like many of us do, only time will tell, but to decide winning at all costs is the way forward is the quickest way to lose the club.. Aka Darren Brown...

Smith runs Steelers as a very good business, which we as fans see benefits from, such as new jumbotrons and other no doubt many off ice improvements and great players welfare etc.

Thing is though Jay, he’s just a fan, he doesn’t appear IMO to know anything about ice hockey when it comes to the on ice activities. He needs help from a proper hockey person, who would see that that if he keeps Fox in charge we’re unlikely to see any of that shiny silverware. If he listens to the local estate agent then we’ll have even less chance of success.

I really don’t know how as owner Smith can keep a failing coach in charge I really don’t, especially if winning trophies is indeed one of his main priorities as owner. Next season will be exactly the same as this one, which is no where near good enough.

I called it in October, only just over a month into the season that we wouldn’t win anything, so if I and plenty of other people can see it, why can’t Tony?

I can't disagree with any of that, it all makes a great deal of sense and to clarify, I personally would like to see Fox be thanked for his efforts and replaced, thats well documented I believe.. My point was however that I dont think Tony Smith cares more about making money than on ice success. that implies that he would rather milk the fans of every penny and couldn't care less of the hockey we play and that simply IS NOT TRUE...
I do hope Tony makes a decision that keeps everyone happy but I doubt that will ever happen... especially those that seem to think profit is a dirty word...

[smbmetal]

To me it seems obvious the time has come for a change in leadership, how long do you let the same stale formula carry on, a problem i can see though is if tony is getting the crowds in as it is at the moment , then i suppose he would be reluctant to change that from a financial point of view

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Tony Smith cares more about making money than on ice success.

I’ve been slated consistently for saying it across social media platforms but more and more I’m proven right. Nothing will change until fans vote with their feet and wallets.

Thing is you have NOT been proven right at all have you, because there literally no way you can prove that Tony Smith cares more about profit that results can you.. the only thing with any certainty anyone can really prove is that he puts the continued security of Sheffield Steelers club as a business over failure and on ice success at any cost.
I know for a fact he would love to see silverware every year, but I also know that if he doesn't run the Steelers as a business we dont even have a club!
Whether at some point he sees the need to replace Fox like many of us do, only time will tell, but to decide winning at all costs is the way forward is the quickest way to lose the club.. Aka Darren Brown...

Smith runs Steelers as a very good business, which we as fans see benefits from, such as new jumbotrons and other no doubt many off ice improvements and great players welfare etc.

Thing is though Jay, he’s just a fan, he doesn’t appear IMO to know anything about ice hockey when it comes to the on ice activities. He needs help from a proper hockey person, who would see that that if he keeps Fox in charge we’re unlikely to see any of that shiny silverware. If he listens to the local estate agent then we’ll have even less chance of success.

I really don’t know how as owner Smith can keep a failing coach in charge I really don’t, especially if winning trophies is indeed one of his main priorities as owner. Next season will be exactly the same as this one, which is no where near good enough.

I called it in October, only just over a month into the season that we wouldn’t win anything, so if I and plenty of other people can see it, why can’t Tony?

I can't disagree with any of that, it all makes a great deal of sense and to clarify, I personally would like to see Fox be thanked for his efforts and replaced, thats well documented I believe.. My point was however that I dont think Tony Smith cares more about making money than on ice success. that implies that he would rather milk the fans of every penny and couldn't care less of the hockey we play and that simply IS NOT TRUE...
I do hope Tony makes a decision that keeps everyone happy but I doubt that will ever happen... especially those that seem to think profit is a dirty word...

I certainly don't think profit is a dirty word and am very pleased to hear that the club is on a stable financial footing especially of the couple of very near collapses. Tony deserves congratulating for this and no doubt him and the off ice team do many, many hours of work behind the scenes to make this club financially successful. I certainly don't begrudge that.

However......I wasn't impressed by his comments recently in the program which I certainly interpreted as silverware wasn't a priority. I'd also be lying if I didn't get wound up by a new shirt to buy for every day of the week. You could argue that people don't have to buy Monday's latest shirt design of course, but sometimes I do feel the fans are milked for their money when for me the ON ICE product is poor. I also believe the club, especially through it's OFFICIAL media channels is aggressive towards fans (including Tony) when being faced with constructive criticism and would love to see the back of the likes of myself.

Sacking Gerad Adams after being successful is still a very poor decision by Smith and by letting Fox continually fail to deliver silverware while we fall further and further behind Belfast says to me that silverware is not on the list of Tony's priorities.

Whilst I can't prove Tony doesn't want success, as a paying fan, I judge him by his actions and by keeping Fox in charge I believe trophy success IMO is very much secondary to Tony. I'd be fuming as an owner if I'd just watched one of my rivals walk a grand slam.

You and I will not agree on this Jay (apart from thanking Fox for his efforts), but I have very much enjoyed our debate

[ginger]

Unfortunately, every club in this league is survival before silverware. Sorry, but that's the reality of minority sport with (relatively) large overheads.

Belfast are excellent at the moment, no doubt. But let's face it, they were almost not in the title race at one point - imagine Besko doesn't return for example, or that Conway went down for the season at Christmas. I suspect both Conway and Goodwin are off to better things this summer and Besko finally retire. Jones was meant to be Besko replacement and got canned. Angeli came in with a big CV and flopped.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not as straightforward as just the coach. Do I have questions on Fox, absolutely. But I'd say he gets final year of his contract to try and win something. If still nothing, fine let's move on, but I'd argue we need to bring in another hockey person to work alongside him. Whether that's Fox as GM and a different coach, or bring in someone to help on recruitment with differing contacts to Fox, we need more hockey people in the club structure

[paul johnston]

What is the arena capacity? 9000 or so
What's our average attendance? 6,500.

I reckon we would get more bums on seats and make Tony more money if (1) we were playing attractive hockey week in week out (2) winning more games at home (3) winning competitions.

If Tony wants more money (him and me both) then there is still potential there. If he is doing all he can from a financial investment point of view (i have no reason to doubt that he is) then he needs to look at the personnel-off ice and on ice to change that-unless of course he is happy coasting with the revenue that the 6,500 average attendance brings in. Others in the league would be rightly jealous at those numbers.

I do think the club is 100% right to cut the cloth accordingly. I hated the boom and bust times over the last 30 years.

[Jayboy]

I certainly don't think profit is a dirty word and am very pleased to hear that the club is on a stable financial footing especially of the couple of very near collapses. Tony deserves congratulating for this and no doubt him and the off ice team do many, many hours of work behind the scenes to make this club financially successful. I certainly don't begrudge that.

However......I wasn't impressed by his comments recently in the program which I certainly interpreted as silverware wasn't a priority. I'd also be lying if I didn't get wound up by a new shirt to buy for every day of the week. You could argue that people don't have to buy Monday's latest shirt design of course, but sometimes I do feel the fans are milked for their money when for me the ON ICE product is poor. I also believe the club, especially through it's OFFICIAL media channels is aggressive towards fans (including Tony) when being faced with constructive criticism and would love to see the back of the likes of myself.

Sacking Gerad Adams after being successful is still a very poor decision by Smith and by letting Fox continually fail to deliver silverware while we fall further and further behind Belfast says to me that silverware is not on the list of Tony's priorities.

Whilst I can't prove Tony doesn't want success, as a paying fan, I judge him by his actions and by keeping Fox in charge I believe trophy success IMO is very much secondary to Tony. I'd be fuming as an owner if I'd just watched one of my rivals walk a grand slam.

You and I will not agree on this Jay (apart from thanking Fox for his efforts), but I have very much enjoyed our debate

I welcome debate and I do agree with most of what you say, I very much think were probably very similar hockey fans and like and dislike the same things, i can just imagine this chat over a pint... I also wish Tony would slightly adjust his view regarding winning silverware, the only thing I can and still defend is the perceived conclusion by some fans that Tony wants nothing from the on ice team bar mediocrity in the favour of profit, I do believe he wants both and when he hired Fox he was hoping to get both...

its not working and the next time I talk to him, I am sure we will have a chat about winning silverware versus keeping the business looking very healthy..
One thing I can tell you with certainty, if he could have both or he most definitely would... and that of course is hard to guarantee, whoever we hire to be our coach...

[Jayboy]

What is the arena capacity? 9000 or so
What's our average attendance? 6,500.

I reckon we would get more bums on seats and make Tony more money if (1) we were playing attractive hockey week in week out (2) winning more games at home (3) winning competitions.

If Tony wants more money (him and me both) then there is still potential there. If he is doing all he can from a financial investment point of view (i have no reason to doubt that he is) then he needs to look at the personnel-off ice and on ice to change that-unless of course he is happy coasting with the revenue that the 6,500 average attendance brings in. Others in the league would be rightly jealous at those numbers.

I do think the club is 100% right to cut the cloth accordingly. I hated the boom and bust times over the last 30 years.

I know I must be coming over all smart arse here, but Tony never ever just rests or coasts along when it comes to the numbers and bums on seats and revenue he can pull in, I think thats the other side of a double edge sword and why some fans see him as just interested in the profit...

Some teams in this league (Some not so far away) have proper taken that on board has a way to run their club...

[jas]

To me it seems obvious the time has come for a change in leadership, how long do you let the same stale formula carry on, a problem i can see though is if tony is getting the crowds in as it is at the moment , then i suppose he would be reluctant to change that from a financial point of view

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Tony Smith cares more about making money than on ice success.

I’ve been slated consistently for saying it across social media platforms but more and more I’m proven right. Nothing will change until fans vote with their feet and wallets.

This is pretty much my view, as I have stated previously. I think the only reason Tony will change the coach is if crowd numbers fall. First and foremost, it is a business for the Smiths and, to be fair, we need the stability. I doubt that winning is the main concern for Tony - more of a bonus really

[Doom]

I don't think for one minute Tony isn't interested in success, yes he's a businessman who first and foremost needs to make sure the club is financially viable, but he's also a supporter and I'm sure he'd love to see the club he supports pick up silverware.

I'd also point out that financial success and team success are not mutually exclusive. If we had been as successful as Belfast this season we would undoubtedly have a lot more customers paying full price for match tickets.

When I look at our roster I think Tony has certainly backed the coach financially, I'm just not convinced he has the best coach to get the best out of his budget.

He clearly made a huge mistake replacing Adams with Thompson and whilst he'll probably never admit it publicly, I'm sure he does sit and wonder where we would be now if he hadn't made the change because he doesn't seem to be able to pick a winning coach like Blaiser, Keefe or Lord.

I guess the obsession with 4 line hockey, speedy ageing players and limited physicality will continue next season whilst Fox remains in charge.

Regards

Doom

[Gibbo42]

Well it looks more and more likely that Aaron Fox will still be coach next season.

Look I want him to succeed, I want this team to succeed. But for me if this time next year we are still trophyless then the finger of blame will fall solely on one man. Mr Tony Smith.

I’m begging you, please prove me wrong.

[Jayboy]

I agree, one way or another the blame always falls with the guy at the top or obviously the owner that employs the same guy.. I am really hoping it's not o e season to many for Fox.. My gut feeling on this, is that it is, only Tony can say why he doesn't think so..

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