Expectations 26/27

[ginger]

Imo it all comes down to coaching no matter what the players are like and Keefe is head and shoulders above everyone. Yes we may have great NHL players etc (well one) but give Fox 4 weeks and he will be average

So if it doesn't have anything to do with players, why did Belfast win naff all in 23-24? Why don't they win a grand slam every year?

The dislike of Fox just seems to completely cloud rational thoughts in some

[DSLSteeler]

It does seem a little strange because when I check out the forums of other teams such as the Devils and the Panthers, the general consensus is that their fans seem to be more impressed with some of our signings than we seem to be on here.

As a new fan who hasn't yet seen us win anything, of course it would be great to see us win a trophy, especially the league. In football life, as a Barnsley fan, I have never seen us win anything much in 50 years of support, and go into every season just hoping for the best. So to support a team that actually has expectations is a different experience. But at the end of the day, if I am entertained and engaged, that's all I ask.

[Jimmy o]

Imo it all comes down to coaching no matter what the players are like and Keefe is head and shoulders above everyone. Yes we may have great NHL players etc (well one) but give Fox 4 weeks and he will be average

So if it doesn't have anything to do with players, why did Belfast win naff all in 23-24? Why don't they win a grand slam every year?

The dislike of Fox just seems to completely cloud rational thoughts in some

For me it’s not a dislike of Fox but when compared to Keefe’s record he certainly falls a long way short:

Trophies as head coach:

Keefe - 11 (including five league titles)
Fox - 4 (one league title)

(I realise Keefe has two more seasons as head coach than Fox)

It’s also hard to argue against the opinion that the Giants under Keefe play more exciting hockey than the Fox brand.

[ginger]

Imo it all comes down to coaching no matter what the players are like and Keefe is head and shoulders above everyone. Yes we may have great NHL players etc (well one) but give Fox 4 weeks and he will be average

So if it doesn't have anything to do with players, why did Belfast win naff all in 23-24? Why don't they win a grand slam every year?

The dislike of Fox just seems to completely cloud rational thoughts in some

For me it’s not a dislike of Fox but when compared to Keefe’s record he certainly falls a long way short:

Trophies as head coach:

Keefe - 11 (including five league titles)
Fox - 4 (one league title)

(I realise Keefe has two more seasons as head coach than Fox)

It’s also hard to argue against the opinion that the Giants under Keefe play more exciting hockey than the Fox brand.

Whilst you can't argue that Keefe is an excellent coach, it doesn't mean that Fox isn't also an excellent coach. Keefe has found an excellent core of players who can execute his gameplan consistently. Exactly what Fox managed to do in the GS season and arguably the year after given the league was decided on the final day. The GS year, Belfast didn't have that core and they had a relatively poor league campaign. The combination of players and coaches win/lose games and championships, and the margins between getting it right and ending up 3rd can be incredibly small.

[Jimmy o]

Imo it all comes down to coaching no matter what the players are like and Keefe is head and shoulders above everyone. Yes we may have great NHL players etc (well one) but give Fox 4 weeks and he will be average

So if it doesn't have anything to do with players, why did Belfast win naff all in 23-24? Why don't they win a grand slam every year?

The dislike of Fox just seems to completely cloud rational thoughts in some

For me it’s not a dislike of Fox but when compared to Keefe’s record he certainly falls a long way short:

Trophies as head coach:

Keefe - 11 (including five league titles)
Fox - 4 (one league title)

(I realise Keefe has two more seasons as head coach than Fox)

It’s also hard to argue against the opinion that the Giants under Keefe play more exciting hockey than the Fox brand.

Whilst you can't argue that Keefe is an excellent coach, it doesn't mean that Fox isn't also an excellent coach. Keefe has found an excellent core of players who can execute his gameplan consistently. Exactly what Fox managed to do in the GS season and arguably the year after given the league was decided on the final day. The GS year, Belfast didn't have that core and they had a relatively poor league campaign. The combination of players and coaches win/lose games and championships, and the margins between getting it right and ending up 3rd can be incredibly small.

All fair points. Question though - would you swap Fox for Keefe?

[Doom]

All fair points. Question though - would you swap Fox for Keefe?

I know the question is aimed at ginger, but for me the answer would be yes.

There's no questioning that Keefe has been more successful, but I also prefer his style of play.

To my mind Keefe is very much in the Blaiser mould and Blaiser is my all time favourite coach.

Keefe signs players who fit into his system, which is effectively a high press keeping teams pinned in. They battle in the corners and the front of the net to win the puck and keep it in the zone - I enjoy that style of hockey.

Fox is more about the quick break and passing the puck around the perimeter. When it works it can be very entertaining, but when a team defend in numbers and keep us on the outside (ie. Coventry x 2 last season), it can be frustrating and a little boring.

I think i said I was something like 55/45 in favour of replacing Fox at the end of last season. In other words I'm not strongly in favour of replacing him, but I do think he's had his chance.

Hopefully this season he'll win me over and I'll swing in favour of keeping him, but I'm not convinced based on the players signed by Belfast/Sheffield.

Just to add, I do think Belfast have the bigger budget, which undoubtedly helps to give Keefe the edge over Fox.

Regards

Doom

[mark]

Expectations ?, I expect them to compete and entertain, nothing more than that, trophies are always the ultimate goal of course but sometimes you don't get the luck you need. Fox teams can be entertaining, that period of CHL play was by far the best hockey I've seen from the Steelers and that includes the Superleague era where there were a lot of low scoring games. At this level budget will always be king and like others I suspect that Belfast have the biggest player budget after the running costs are factored in.

[ginger]

Imo it all comes down to coaching no matter what the players are like and Keefe is head and shoulders above everyone. Yes we may have great NHL players etc (well one) but give Fox 4 weeks and he will be average

So if it doesn't have anything to do with players, why did Belfast win naff all in 23-24? Why don't they win a grand slam every year?

The dislike of Fox just seems to completely cloud rational thoughts in some

For me it’s not a dislike of Fox but when compared to Keefe’s record he certainly falls a long way short:

Trophies as head coach:

Keefe - 11 (including five league titles)
Fox - 4 (one league title)

(I realise Keefe has two more seasons as head coach than Fox)

It’s also hard to argue against the opinion that the Giants under Keefe play more exciting hockey than the Fox brand.

Whilst you can't argue that Keefe is an excellent coach, it doesn't mean that Fox isn't also an excellent coach. Keefe has found an excellent core of players who can execute his gameplan consistently. Exactly what Fox managed to do in the GS season and arguably the year after given the league was decided on the final day. The GS year, Belfast didn't have that core and they had a relatively poor league campaign. The combination of players and coaches win/lose games and championships, and the margins between getting it right and ending up 3rd can be incredibly small.

All fair points. Question though - would you swap Fox for Keefe?

Depends - am I also getting Conway, Piccinich and Goodwin? The joke before that was Giants recruited 2 teams per season - one not good enough and then one that was. Again, when they didn't have that core (since tighter roster restrictions came in) they won nothing.

Does Keefe want to actually bring through British kids via a pathway? (You would have thought so and yet they won't take proper full time shots with the likes of Beattie and Stewart)

It's obviously not a no in one sense when you look at trophy records, but equally I don't think the gap in coaching quality is that great - if Fox is such a poor coach, why do players seem to like playing for him? Balmas could have easily gotten a move but he's now entering his 4th season under Fox.

[Keith Sheppard]

In all fairness, over the past two post grand slam seasons, we really have not had the hockey gods smile on us. As has been posted earlier in the thread, if Greenfield hadn’t picked up an injury against Berlin, we win back to back league titles. Last year in the build up to the playoffs, first we lose Watling to a freak injury, then before the weekend Ritchie departs for home, Trembley gets hurt in the semi final and ices in the final with a knee brace and numerous injections through the game. If we had all those players fit and icing, we had a damn good chance of winning that trophy. Aaron Fox’s trophy haul then looks a hell of a lot better. Let’s hope the God’s are more favourable to our team this year and those fine margins tilt the ice in our favour. A lot is rightly being said about how good Belfast look again, they will face some tougher challenges this year from us, Cardiff and Notts who will be hoping to pick up their trophies, it’s going to be a tough season for them. They are good but not invincible, just ask Coventry and Fife.

[Jimmy o]

So if it doesn't have anything to do with players, why did Belfast win naff all in 23-24? Why don't they win a grand slam every year?

The dislike of Fox just seems to completely cloud rational thoughts in some

For me it’s not a dislike of Fox but when compared to Keefe’s record he certainly falls a long way short:

Trophies as head coach:

Keefe - 11 (including five league titles)
Fox - 4 (one league title)

(I realise Keefe has two more seasons as head coach than Fox)

It’s also hard to argue against the opinion that the Giants under Keefe play more exciting hockey than the Fox brand.

Whilst you can't argue that Keefe is an excellent coach, it doesn't mean that Fox isn't also an excellent coach. Keefe has found an excellent core of players who can execute his gameplan consistently. Exactly what Fox managed to do in the GS season and arguably the year after given the league was decided on the final day. The GS year, Belfast didn't have that core and they had a relatively poor league campaign. The combination of players and coaches win/lose games and championships, and the margins between getting it right and ending up 3rd can be incredibly small.

All fair points. Question though - would you swap Fox for Keefe?

Depends - am I also getting Conway, Piccinich and Goodwin? The joke before that was Giants recruited 2 teams per season - one not good enough and then one that was. Again, when they didn't have that core (since tighter roster restrictions came in) they won nothing.

Does Keefe want to actually bring through British kids via a pathway? (You would have thought so and yet they won't take proper full time shots with the likes of Beattie and Stewart)

It's obviously not a no in one sense when you look at trophy records, but equally I don't think the gap in coaching quality is that great - if Fox is such a poor coach, why do players seem to like playing for him? Balmas could have easily gotten a move but he's now entering his 4th season under Fox.

Cheers. For me I’d swap Fox for Keefe in a heartbeat. If any coach in the league plays ‘Steelers hockey’ it’s Keefe.