Aaron Fox Will make Sheffield Steelers EIHL champions again...

[Doom]

We've been very hit and miss with our recruitment of uni place players . To attribute our failure and Giants success to that is madness.
Yes recruitment, yes systems/coaching.

That's down to poor recruitment as far as I'm concerned.

If you recruit well it's a valuable tool in the armoury.

I'd suggest Neal Martin has probably been the most influential player in the EIHL era and he only ended up at Coventry due to the Uni course.

Regards

Doom

I’d suggest Tyler Beskorowany has taken over that mantle from Neal Martin now and he has never been on a Uni course.

He's undoubtedly very good, but I'd take Martin over Besko in a Steelers shirt.

Martin was a high quality ISL player at London, I don't think Besko is quite at that level.

I would say Conway has been just as crucial to Belfast's success as Besko, possibly even more so.

Swap Besko for Greenfield last season and Belfast still win the league. Swap Conway for any of our forwards and I think we win the league.

All opinion of course and we'll never know, but I'd certainly agree Besko has been a huge influence to Belfast and for me you have the number 1 goalie next season unless age/injury starts to get the better of him.

Regards

Doom

[Bob46]

He's undoubtedly very good, but I'd take Martin over Besko in a Steelers shirt.

Martin was a high quality ISL player at London, I don't think Besko is quite at that level.


Regards

Doom

I disagree obviously. Yes Neal Martin was a high quality ISL player. Beskorowany is clearly on that level though. Let’s not forget Beskorowany was a DEL goaltender of the year before he came to the UK. He’s led the Giants to two League and cup doubles in a row and a Grand Slam, only two Playoff Final losses short of three straight Grand Slams which is mind boggling.

[BontSteeler]

To settle the arguement, I'll take them both in Orange!

2 cracking players who have been a joy to watch whenever they've both been at the Arena.

Just my opinion but if Belfast don't recruit Besko half way through the season, then they don't win the EIHL title, yes Conway was putting up points for fun but they were also leaking goals when they had Jones in.

[ginger]

Bettauer had a great resume, but for whatever reason it didn't work out here. Agree on Ostlund and Brust though. Let's be fair here though, Belfast did not get their recruitment spot on last summer. What they did do well was in making mid season changes, and I think that is where we struggled. That could have been due to timing of when we needed to make changes (I e lack of availability) or poor recruitment choices - and we'll not be able to say (unless anyone here is an agent!).

I hope we're looking at the 29/30 year olds for uni places - career AHL type guys who's shot to make the show are probably gone, so will need to start thinking about the future. I'm sure though it's not as easy as we all make it sound though!

Belfast did get their recruitment pretty much spot on.

Two players seasons were cut short due to injury and one’s career was ended due to a bleed on the brain,
One player was sacked due to off ice incident involving a team mates girlfriend and Peyton Jones was replaced by Besko. Thornton and Keefe are EXCELLENT recruiters and Smith does them a disservice by claiming the Giants success is due to over use of a Uni program. Giants had just three players on a program with Lasell Uni last year.

The Friendship Four and the teams reputation for looking after the players extremely well has been a much better help in recruiting talent than Uni places.
Plus the Giants dont have a figure like Simms hanging around causing cringe worthy embarrassment.

And yet, Besko was the one where they really started to push for the title. I honestly believe he was the piece that put them over the top to win everything. Also, may have been injury that meant he went, but Angeli was meant to be high scoring and did nothing. I think they were thankful when they could replace him. They recruited well, but to say their recruitment was spot on just isn't quite right.

[House_of_Steel]

Also one that’s lost it’s willingness to put its hand in its pocket, Vallerands lower overall points last season will of reduced his wages the same for Connolly last season, at times it feels like a book balancing exercise by the club, not one that thinks we need better therefore we may after spend a little bit more from the profits to get the quality we need. Judging by Glasgows rumoured signings the new owners there seem to want to succeed in lieu of Neil blacks failed tenure.

If we fail again this season questions need to be asked, not just in the coaching capacity but also the ownership. If financially we’re at our ceiling could outside investment be an option all ifs and buts at the moment but so far I’m quite underwhelmed with the roster.

What I’d give for a top line of Roy, Forney and Fretter again but unfortunately players with them resumes are at a premium.

[smbmetal]

Also one that’s lost it’s willingness to put its hand in its pocket, Vallerands lower overall points last season will of reduced his wages the same for Connolly last season, at times it feels like a book balancing exercise by the club, not one that thinks we need better therefore we may after spend a little bit more from the profits to get the quality we need. Judging by Glasgows rumoured signings the new owners there seem to want to succeed in lieu of Neil blacks failed tenure.

If we fail again this season questions need to be asked, not just in the coaching capacity but also the ownership. If financially we’re at our ceiling could outside investment be an option all ifs and buts at the moment but so far I’m quite underwhelmed with the roster.

What I’d give for a top line of Roy, Forney and Fretter again but unfortunately players with them resumes are at a premium.

That could be a correct assessment.

The club also seems to believe when you listen to the media, Fox and club officials that we were only the odd positive bounce away from wining the league. We were miles behind Belfast even if the points tally did not necessarily show that. They wiped the floor in all but one head to head with us.

I called it in last October last year that we wouldn't be winning the league as many of us could see that we were no where near good enough, even that early in the season.

While ever the club believes that we were sooooooooo close and only need small tweaks, we will continue to be 2nd or 3rd best IMO.

[ginger]

Also one that’s lost it’s willingness to put its hand in its pocket, Vallerands lower overall points last season will of reduced his wages the same for Connolly last season, at times it feels like a book balancing exercise by the club, not one that thinks we need better therefore we may after spend a little bit more from the profits to get the quality we need. Judging by Glasgows rumoured signings the new owners there seem to want to succeed in lieu of Neil blacks failed tenure.

If we fail again this season questions need to be asked, not just in the coaching capacity but also the ownership. If financially we’re at our ceiling could outside investment be an option all ifs and buts at the moment but so far I’m quite underwhelmed with the roster.

What I’d give for a top line of Roy, Forney and Fretter again but unfortunately players with them resumes are at a premium.

That could be a correct assessment.

The club also seems to believe when you listen to the media, Fox and club officials that we were only the odd positive bounce away from wining the league. We were miles behind Belfast even if the points tally did not necessarily show that. They wiped the floor in all but one head to head with us.

I called it in last October last year that we wouldn't be winning the league as many of us could see that we were no where near good enough, even that early in the season.

While ever the club believes that we were sooooooooo close and only need small tweaks, we will continue to be 2nd or 3rd best IMO.

Is 9 new players (roughly what it looks like at the moment) not enough? That's quite a big turnover. It suggests that even though there's comments about not being too far away, I'd say that's an admission that something needed to improve. Changing 4 players and I'd agree, but 9 is quite different.

Vallerand had 1 bad season, which was well documented as injury and illness ridden. He's literally second behind Conway in PPG in EIHL for players who've played more than 100 games. Yes age may start to come in to play, but given his injuries were not ones that often had big effects on players, I just don't understand the negativity. He's only 34, which these days is nothing if not had lots of bad injuries.

Honestly feels like a few people have made up their minds with not even half the team announced and some before we'd signed anyone. If that's the case then I'm sure we could sign Makar, Crosby and Ovechkin and people would moan that Makar is too offensive, and Crosby and Ovechkin are too old

[smbmetal]

Also one that’s lost it’s willingness to put its hand in its pocket, Vallerands lower overall points last season will of reduced his wages the same for Connolly last season, at times it feels like a book balancing exercise by the club, not one that thinks we need better therefore we may after spend a little bit more from the profits to get the quality we need. Judging by Glasgows rumoured signings the new owners there seem to want to succeed in lieu of Neil blacks failed tenure.

If we fail again this season questions need to be asked, not just in the coaching capacity but also the ownership. If financially we’re at our ceiling could outside investment be an option all ifs and buts at the moment but so far I’m quite underwhelmed with the roster.

What I’d give for a top line of Roy, Forney and Fretter again but unfortunately players with them resumes are at a premium.

That could be a correct assessment.

The club also seems to believe when you listen to the media, Fox and club officials that we were only the odd positive bounce away from wining the league. We were miles behind Belfast even if the points tally did not necessarily show that. They wiped the floor in all but one head to head with us.

I called it in last October last year that we wouldn't be winning the league as many of us could see that we were no where near good enough, even that early in the season.

While ever the club believes that we were sooooooooo close and only need small tweaks, we will continue to be 2nd or 3rd best IMO.

Is 9 new players (roughly what it looks like at the moment) not enough? That's quite a big turnover. It suggests that even though there's comments about not being too far away, I'd say that's an admission that something needed to improve. Changing 4 players and I'd agree, but 9 is quite different.

Vallerand had 1 bad season, which was well documented as injury and illness ridden. He's literally second behind Conway in PPG in EIHL for players who've played more than 100 games. Yes age may start to come in to play, but given his injuries were not ones that often had big effects on players, I just don't understand the negativity. He's only 34, which these days is nothing if not had lots of bad injuries.

Honestly feels like a few people have made up their minds with not even half the team announced and some before we'd signed anyone. If that's the case then I'm sure we could sign Makar, Crosby and Ovechkin and people would moan that Makar is too offensive, and Crosby and Ovechkin are too old

I've certainty made up my mind.

I lost confidence in Fox last season and do not believe he will change his methods, even if we sign another 30 players we'll sign another bang average team who will beat the lower budget teams but struggle against the likes of Belfast and Cardiff.

Supposedly physical players don't play with a physical edge under Fox IMO. Kevin Tansey looks like that type of player, but he'll have to temper that side of his game pretty much straight away as it's obvious under Fox that's not the way the Steelers play.

Fox has had plenty of time for me, much more than more successful coaches have had under this ownership that is for sure.

Happy to eat humble pie.

[ginger]

Also one that’s lost it’s willingness to put its hand in its pocket, Vallerands lower overall points last season will of reduced his wages the same for Connolly last season, at times it feels like a book balancing exercise by the club, not one that thinks we need better therefore we may after spend a little bit more from the profits to get the quality we need. Judging by Glasgows rumoured signings the new owners there seem to want to succeed in lieu of Neil blacks failed tenure.

If we fail again this season questions need to be asked, not just in the coaching capacity but also the ownership. If financially we’re at our ceiling could outside investment be an option all ifs and buts at the moment but so far I’m quite underwhelmed with the roster.

What I’d give for a top line of Roy, Forney and Fretter again but unfortunately players with them resumes are at a premium.

That could be a correct assessment.

The club also seems to believe when you listen to the media, Fox and club officials that we were only the odd positive bounce away from wining the league. We were miles behind Belfast even if the points tally did not necessarily show that. They wiped the floor in all but one head to head with us.

I called it in last October last year that we wouldn't be winning the league as many of us could see that we were no where near good enough, even that early in the season.

While ever the club believes that we were sooooooooo close and only need small tweaks, we will continue to be 2nd or 3rd best IMO.

Is 9 new players (roughly what it looks like at the moment) not enough? That's quite a big turnover. It suggests that even though there's comments about not being too far away, I'd say that's an admission that something needed to improve. Changing 4 players and I'd agree, but 9 is quite different.

Vallerand had 1 bad season, which was well documented as injury and illness ridden. He's literally second behind Conway in PPG in EIHL for players who've played more than 100 games. Yes age may start to come in to play, but given his injuries were not ones that often had big effects on players, I just don't understand the negativity. He's only 34, which these days is nothing if not had lots of bad injuries.

Honestly feels like a few people have made up their minds with not even half the team announced and some before we'd signed anyone. If that's the case then I'm sure we could sign Makar, Crosby and Ovechkin and people would moan that Makar is too offensive, and Crosby and Ovechkin are too old

I've certainty made up my mind.

I lost confidence in Fox last season and do not believe he will change his methods, even if we sign another 30 players we'll sign another bang average team who will beat the lower budget teams but struggle against the likes of Belfast and Cardiff.

Supposedly physical players don't play with a physical edge under Fox IMO. Kevin Tansey looks like that type of player, but he'll have to temper that side of his game pretty much straight away as it's obvious under Fox that's not the way the Steelers play.

Fox has had plenty of time for me, much more than more successful coaches have had under this ownership that is for sure.

Happy to eat humble pie.

So what's the minimum expectations for a coach (any coach) to keep their job? Trophy a season? League min of every other year? It's not realistic when you have 5 teams, who all spend roughly the same on wages all with good hockey people as recruiters all looking to win.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but just thinking about wider context. I'm also not saying that we can go another year without a trophy without a coaching change, so I'm equally not blind to what has been the outcome of the last 2 seasons

[House_of_Steel]

Also one that’s lost it’s willingness to put its hand in its pocket, Vallerands lower overall points last season will of reduced his wages the same for Connolly last season, at times it feels like a book balancing exercise by the club, not one that thinks we need better therefore we may after spend a little bit more from the profits to get the quality we need. Judging by Glasgows rumoured signings the new owners there seem to want to succeed in lieu of Neil blacks failed tenure.

If we fail again this season questions need to be asked, not just in the coaching capacity but also the ownership. If financially we’re at our ceiling could outside investment be an option all ifs and buts at the moment but so far I’m quite underwhelmed with the roster.

What I’d give for a top line of Roy, Forney and Fretter again but unfortunately players with them resumes are at a premium.

That could be a correct assessment.

The club also seems to believe when you listen to the media, Fox and club officials that we were only the odd positive bounce away from wining the league. We were miles behind Belfast even if the points tally did not necessarily show that. They wiped the floor in all but one head to head with us.

I called it in last October last year that we wouldn't be winning the league as many of us could see that we were no where near good enough, even that early in the season.

While ever the club believes that we were sooooooooo close and only need small tweaks, we will continue to be 2nd or 3rd best IMO.

Is 9 new players (roughly what it looks like at the moment) not enough? That's quite a big turnover. It suggests that even though there's comments about not being too far away, I'd say that's an admission that something needed to improve. Changing 4 players and I'd agree, but 9 is quite different.

Vallerand had 1 bad season, which was well documented as injury and illness ridden. He's literally second behind Conway in PPG in EIHL for players who've played more than 100 games. Yes age may start to come in to play, but given his injuries were not ones that often had big effects on players, I just don't understand the negativity. He's only 34, which these days is nothing if not had lots of bad injuries.

Honestly feels like a few people have made up their minds with not even half the team announced and some before we'd signed anyone. If that's the case then I'm sure we could sign Makar, Crosby and Ovechkin and people would moan that Makar is too offensive, and Crosby and Ovechkin are too old

I've certainty made up my mind.

I lost confidence in Fox last season and do not believe he will change his methods, even if we sign another 30 players we'll sign another bang average team who will beat the lower budget teams but struggle against the likes of Belfast and Cardiff.

Supposedly physical players don't play with a physical edge under Fox IMO. Kevin Tansey looks like that type of player, but he'll have to temper that side of his game pretty much straight away as it's obvious under Fox that's not the way the Steelers play.

Fox has had plenty of time for me, much more than more successful coaches have had under this ownership that is for sure.

Happy to eat humble pie.

So what's the minimum expectations for a coach (any coach) to keep their job? Trophy a season? League min of every other year? It's not realistic when you have 5 teams, who all spend roughly the same on wages all with good hockey people as recruiters all looking to win.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but just thinking about wider context. I'm also not saying that we can go another year without a trophy without a coaching change, so I'm equally not blind to what has been the outcome of the last 2 seasons

Over the past 5 seasons Belfast have won the league 3 times 4 challenge cups and 1 playoff

Cardiff have won the league 2 two times 3 playoffs and 1 challenge cup

Sheffield have 1 challenge cup

That’s 8-1 Belfast

And 6-1 Cardiff

It’s quite ironic really because these numbers tend to be what we get beaten by them over the past 5 years more often than not!
These two teams have both set a higher standard in our league at one time this would of been totally unacceptable I haven’t seen anything since Paul Thompson was here that would lead me to believe this will change anytime soon.