The completed squad - Your verdict

[Morpheous]

we have potentially upgraded one forward from last season in Watling. I was expecting the last forward in Nicholls to be of the same standard genuine top line quality. He is not in my opinion. In his past 3 seasons at our level he’s producing middle 6 numbers and his goal scoring which is well below where you’d expect our last “PREMIUM” forward to be its quite disappointing really. I can’t see the added pressure of studying for a MBA in his spare time contributing to an upturn in his numbers. The trouble with this is it dilutes the lines further down the roster and players that would have been more comfortable down the order are required to step up (Dowdy etc.) to compensate for it.

What I’ve also taken into account is that 4 of our top 6 forwards from last year didn’t make the top 20 in EIHL scoring that’s a worrying statistic.

Vallerand had a poor season by his standards and on his return to us was nowhere near producing the goals required whether that was through injury/decline time will tell again a risk but he should still be good for low 20s goals.

Moving onto our bottom 6 imports again this is again quite worrying but seems to be the theme of Aaron Fox throwing the dice that could prove costly sooner than he thinks. Simpson, Juusola, Kielly all extremely low numbers last year, many people have said they like the look of Juusola. I agree he could potentially be a good player however, we also need to factor in no one else has taken a gamble on this player in any other league and the language barrier thats quite apparent in his interview may work to his detriment.

Defence wasn’t an issue last season and I don’t think it will be again the issue for me same as last year will be the Forwards not been able to match Belfasts or Cardiffs it’s very much the theme now and has been for the past 5 seasons. Added to that Glasgow and Nottingham seem to have recruited well on paper I’d say better than us.


League prediction 4th/5th based on the fact we were 3rd last season with the majority same set of forwards, the remainder new signings other than Watling look mediocre at best also taking into account Belfast, Cardiff ,Glasgow, Nottingham have all recruited well on paper.

League prediction.

Belfast
Cardiff
Nottingham
Glasgow
Sheffield
Guildford
All the rest in any order.

Upgraded one forward from last season?


Latal - Watling
Kristo - Nicholls
Mcnally - Simpson
Pitule - Kielly
Mosey - Juusola
Mitchell - plus a fully fit and hungry Vally

Plus we’ve kept all our top scoring forwards who I expect to have a better year this year.and look quite a bit younger and bigger.

[ginger]

In all honesty, I don't understand some of the negativity around the complete roster.

Tansey - why does everyone seem down on him? Consistently good stats in leagues equal or slightly higher than ours.

(My opinion on D is that on paper we have the best in the league)

Vallerand - way less of a risk than Connolly signing was. Connolly was coming off an injury that can finish careers of younger players. Vallerand had injuries and illness but the injuries were ones which just needed a bit extra time to heal. Full summer and he should be fine.

Nicholls - guy put up 0.5 PPG in the KHL 2 seasons ago, when he got better playing time and pp time. Last season his minutes were limited and was asked to play a shutdown role. His average time on ice was sub 10 minutes per game, so goes a long way to explain why he didn't put up points. If he's getting 20 minutes a night, playing pp and with quality guys on his line, I can't see anything that suggests he won't do well.

Kielly - little bit of a risk coming off injury hit season, but before that he was almost a PPG in the coast. Coming in at a bottom 6 role, this looks a risk worth taking.

Juusola - again a little bit of a risk, and hard to know how his game will translate but at worst we'll get a very responsible bottom 6 guy, and at best he could end up top scorer in the league. Reality will probably be somewhere in the middle of those 2 extremes but I think it does cut down on the risk

Simpson is probably my only question mark on the forwards. Mainly because I worry slightly about his size as a centre and his skating. If he's playing centre his skating will need to be very good for someone at 6'6 to ensure he's not out of the play on big ice.


Coaching wise I know a lot of people seem to dislike Fox, but I'll be honest, aside from not winning anything the last 2 seasons (yes, it's only 2 seasons we haven't won anything in - maybe a wee bit of entitlement from some of us here?), we've only had 1 season where we've not really been competitive (21-22). And even then we were top around Christmas.

Everyone wants fast physical hockey. We have the first part. I think we've upped the physicality with the new look D. I know some would love an enforcer type player, but I'll be honest, if Dundee are going down the 'old time hockey ' route, they're going to get rinsed by the amount of penalties they'll be killing.

[Doom]

In all honesty, I don't understand some of the negativity around the complete roster.

Tansey - why does everyone seem down on him? Consistently good stats in leagues equal or slightly higher than ours.

(My opinion on D is that on paper we have the best in the league)

Vallerand - way less of a risk than Connolly signing was. Connolly was coming off an injury that can finish careers of younger players. Vallerand had injuries and illness but the injuries were ones which just needed a bit extra time to heal. Full summer and he should be fine.

Nicholls - guy put up 0.5 PPG in the KHL 2 seasons ago, when he got better playing time and pp time. Last season his minutes were limited and was asked to play a shutdown role. His average time on ice was sub 10 minutes per game, so goes a long way to explain why he didn't put up points. If he's getting 20 minutes a night, playing pp and with quality guys on his line, I can't see anything that suggests he won't do well.

Kielly - little bit of a risk coming off injury hit season, but before that he was almost a PPG in the coast. Coming in at a bottom 6 role, this looks a risk worth taking.

Juusola - again a little bit of a risk, and hard to know how his game will translate but at worst we'll get a very responsible bottom 6 guy, and at best he could end up top scorer in the league. Reality will probably be somewhere in the middle of those 2 extremes but I think it does cut down on the risk

Simpson is probably my only question mark on the forwards. Mainly because I worry slightly about his size as a centre and his skating. If he's playing centre his skating will need to be very good for someone at 6'6 to ensure he's not out of the play on big ice.


Coaching wise I know a lot of people seem to dislike Fox, but I'll be honest, aside from not winning anything the last 2 seasons (yes, it's only 2 seasons we haven't won anything in - maybe a wee bit of entitlement from some of us here?), we've only had 1 season where we've not really been competitive (21-22). And even then we were top around Christmas.

Everyone wants fast physical hockey. We have the first part. I think we've upped the physicality with the new look D. I know some would love an enforcer type player, but I'll be honest, if Dundee are going down the 'old time hockey ' route, they're going to get rinsed by the amount of penalties they'll be killing.

Hi Ginger,

I do love your positivity and would suggest I feel quite positive but with a few reservations.

Just picking up on your comments:

Tansey - I'm not sure everyone is down on him unless you're picking it up on social media.

I think I'm the only one on here who has posted any negative comments regarding Tansey, but that's based on his +/-. In recent seasons he's had one of the poorer +/- for defencemen on his team, but generally in better leagues than ours.

I'm quite happy with the signing of Tansey, but I suspect he will probably be the weakest defensively of our 5 new imports because he appears to play a very offensive game.

He should bring good balance though to what appears to be our best defence in years, because he'll offer a physical presence and I suspect a very good shot, particularly on the powerplay.

Vallerand - Agreed he's much less of a risk than Connolly, who I thought was a ridiculous re-signing. For me the question with Vally is whether he's lost a yard of speed and as a result can't get himself into those good shooting positions as quickly - Time will tell on that one.

Nicholls - I've said my piece on him. I think he'll be decent, but not the big impact 1st liner I was hoping for.

Kielly - I like the look of him and if he converts well to the bigger ice I think he could be excellent for a 3rd line player.

Simpson - Like you, I have reservations. He's already played on the larger ice of Europe and seemed to struggle a little. Maybe at our level he'll find a bit more space and time (says he hopefully).

Juusola - I think he'll be fine at our level, if he gets an early goal in the season I could see him flying. I actually think the biggest risk here is if he finds his form he might get poached mid-season by a big budget DEL team.

Regards

Doom

[ginger]

In all honesty, I don't understand some of the negativity around the complete roster.

Tansey - why does everyone seem down on him? Consistently good stats in leagues equal or slightly higher than ours.

(My opinion on D is that on paper we have the best in the league)

Vallerand - way less of a risk than Connolly signing was. Connolly was coming off an injury that can finish careers of younger players. Vallerand had injuries and illness but the injuries were ones which just needed a bit extra time to heal. Full summer and he should be fine.

Nicholls - guy put up 0.5 PPG in the KHL 2 seasons ago, when he got better playing time and pp time. Last season his minutes were limited and was asked to play a shutdown role. His average time on ice was sub 10 minutes per game, so goes a long way to explain why he didn't put up points. If he's getting 20 minutes a night, playing pp and with quality guys on his line, I can't see anything that suggests he won't do well.

Kielly - little bit of a risk coming off injury hit season, but before that he was almost a PPG in the coast. Coming in at a bottom 6 role, this looks a risk worth taking.

Juusola - again a little bit of a risk, and hard to know how his game will translate but at worst we'll get a very responsible bottom 6 guy, and at best he could end up top scorer in the league. Reality will probably be somewhere in the middle of those 2 extremes but I think it does cut down on the risk

Simpson is probably my only question mark on the forwards. Mainly because I worry slightly about his size as a centre and his skating. If he's playing centre his skating will need to be very good for someone at 6'6 to ensure he's not out of the play on big ice.


Coaching wise I know a lot of people seem to dislike Fox, but I'll be honest, aside from not winning anything the last 2 seasons (yes, it's only 2 seasons we haven't won anything in - maybe a wee bit of entitlement from some of us here?), we've only had 1 season where we've not really been competitive (21-22). And even then we were top around Christmas.

Everyone wants fast physical hockey. We have the first part. I think we've upped the physicality with the new look D. I know some would love an enforcer type player, but I'll be honest, if Dundee are going down the 'old time hockey ' route, they're going to get rinsed by the amount of penalties they'll be killing.

Hi Ginger,

I do love your positivity and would suggest I feel quite positive but with a few reservations.

Just picking up on your comments:

Tansey - I'm not sure everyone is down on him unless you're picking it up on social media.

I think I'm the only one on here who has posted any negative comments regarding Tansey, but that's based on his +/-. In recent seasons he's had one of the poorer +/- for defencemen on his team, but generally in better leagues than ours.

I'm quite happy with the signing of Tansey, but I suspect he will probably be the weakest defensively of our 5 new imports because he appears to play a very offensive game.

He should bring good balance though to what appears to be our best defence in years, because he'll offer a physical presence and I suspect a very good shot, particularly on the powerplay.

Vallerand - Agreed he's much less of a risk than Connolly, who I thought was a ridiculous re-signing. For me the question with Vally is whether he's lost a yard of speed and as a result can't get himself into those good shooting positions as quickly - Time will tell on that one.

Nicholls - I've said my piece on him. I think he'll be decent, but not the big impact 1st liner I was hoping for.

Kielly - I like the look of him and if he converts well to the bigger ice I think he could be excellent for a 3rd line player.

Simpson - Like you, I have reservations. He's already played on the larger ice of Europe and seemed to struggle a little. Maybe at our level he'll find a bit more space and time (says he hopefully).

Juusola - I think he'll be fine at our level, if he gets an early goal in the season I could see him flying. I actually think the biggest risk here is if he finds his form he might get poached mid-season by a big budget DEL team.

Regards

Doom

Thanks Doom,

If we'd signed a team full of 0.5ppg ECHL players I'd be the first to say it's not going to be good enough, but when objectively we've signed good players from good leagues on paper, I don't see the point in being negative before a puck has dropped.

Far too many variables that can make or break in terms of success, it could be as slim as a shot going 2 inch the other way.

[House_of_Steel]

we have potentially upgraded one forward from last season in Watling. I was expecting the last forward in Nicholls to be of the same standard genuine top line quality. He is not in my opinion. In his past 3 seasons at our level he’s producing middle 6 numbers and his goal scoring which is well below where you’d expect our last “PREMIUM” forward to be its quite disappointing really. I can’t see the added pressure of studying for a MBA in his spare time contributing to an upturn in his numbers. The trouble with this is it dilutes the lines further down the roster and players that would have been more comfortable down the order are required to step up (Dowdy etc.) to compensate for it.

What I’ve also taken into account is that 4 of our top 6 forwards from last year didn’t make the top 20 in EIHL scoring that’s a worrying statistic.

Vallerand had a poor season by his standards and on his return to us was nowhere near producing the goals required whether that was through injury/decline time will tell again a risk but he should still be good for low 20s goals.

Moving onto our bottom 6 imports again this is again quite worrying but seems to be the theme of Aaron Fox throwing the dice that could prove costly sooner than he thinks. Simpson, Juusola, Kielly all extremely low numbers last year, many people have said they like the look of Juusola. I agree he could potentially be a good player however, we also need to factor in no one else has taken a gamble on this player in any other league and the language barrier thats quite apparent in his interview may work to his detriment.

Defence wasn’t an issue last season and I don’t think it will be again the issue for me same as last year will be the Forwards not been able to match Belfasts or Cardiffs it’s very much the theme now and has been for the past 5 seasons. Added to that Glasgow and Nottingham seem to have recruited well on paper I’d say better than us.


League prediction 4th/5th based on the fact we were 3rd last season with the majority same set of forwards, the remainder new signings other than Watling look mediocre at best also taking into account Belfast, Cardiff ,Glasgow, Nottingham have all recruited well on paper.

League prediction.

Belfast
Cardiff
Nottingham
Glasgow
Sheffield
Guildford
All the rest in any order.

Upgraded one forward from last season?


Latal - Watling
Kristo - Nicholls
Mcnally - Simpson
Pitule - Kielly
Mosey - Juusola
Mitchell - plus a fully fit and hungry Vally

Plus we’ve kept all our top scoring forwards who I expect to have a better year this year.and look quite a bit younger and bigger.

I don’t think they are upgrades on paper, It isn’t played on paper I’m fully aware of this, I’m only saying what I see ZERO goals from Juusola 3 goals from Kielly, 5 from Simpson also wouldn’t Watling be an upgrade from Connolly? That I could agree with as far as numbers.

Just to add Kristo was a mid season addition in the place of Raska he totalled 12 goals after a positive start.I don’t honestly see based on recent numbers Nicholls producing much more. I have him penned in for 12-15 goals.

It’s your opinion I have mine. I’m sure they’ll be more room for discussion when the season starts.

[Morpheous]

we have potentially upgraded one forward from last season in Watling. I was expecting the last forward in Nicholls to be of the same standard genuine top line quality. He is not in my opinion. In his past 3 seasons at our level he’s producing middle 6 numbers and his goal scoring which is well below where you’d expect our last “PREMIUM” forward to be its quite disappointing really. I can’t see the added pressure of studying for a MBA in his spare time contributing to an upturn in his numbers. The trouble with this is it dilutes the lines further down the roster and players that would have been more comfortable down the order are required to step up (Dowdy etc.) to compensate for it.

What I’ve also taken into account is that 4 of our top 6 forwards from last year didn’t make the top 20 in EIHL scoring that’s a worrying statistic.

Vallerand had a poor season by his standards and on his return to us was nowhere near producing the goals required whether that was through injury/decline time will tell again a risk but he should still be good for low 20s goals.

Moving onto our bottom 6 imports again this is again quite worrying but seems to be the theme of Aaron Fox throwing the dice that could prove costly sooner than he thinks. Simpson, Juusola, Kielly all extremely low numbers last year, many people have said they like the look of Juusola. I agree he could potentially be a good player however, we also need to factor in no one else has taken a gamble on this player in any other league and the language barrier thats quite apparent in his interview may work to his detriment.

Defence wasn’t an issue last season and I don’t think it will be again the issue for me same as last year will be the Forwards not been able to match Belfasts or Cardiffs it’s very much the theme now and has been for the past 5 seasons. Added to that Glasgow and Nottingham seem to have recruited well on paper I’d say better than us.


League prediction 4th/5th based on the fact we were 3rd last season with the majority same set of forwards, the remainder new signings other than Watling look mediocre at best also taking into account Belfast, Cardiff ,Glasgow, Nottingham have all recruited well on paper.

League prediction.

Belfast
Cardiff
Nottingham
Glasgow
Sheffield
Guildford
All the rest in any order.

Upgraded one forward from last season?


Latal - Watling
Kristo - Nicholls
Mcnally - Simpson
Pitule - Kielly
Mosey - Juusola
Mitchell - plus a fully fit and hungry Vally

Plus we’ve kept all our top scoring forwards who I expect to have a better year this year.and look quite a bit younger and bigger.

I don’t think they are upgrades on paper, It isn’t played on paper I’m fully aware of this, I’m only saying what I see ZERO goals from Juusola 3 goals from Kielly, 5 from Simpson also wouldn’t Watling be an upgrade from Connolly? That I could agree with as far as numbers.

Just to add Kristo was a mid season addition in the place of Raska he totalled 12 goals after a positive start.I don’t honestly see based on recent numbers Nicholls producing much more. I have him penned in for 12-15 goals.

It’s your opinion I have mine. I’m sure they’ll be more room for discussion when the season starts.

Very true it is all about opinions.

I personally think Nicholls will be a great all round player and I think will be 20+ goals as he’s moving from the 4th line in The KHL to a top6 role in the EIHL and the standard is very different .


Let’s have a look at the end of the season and see if the new players produce more points than the ones we’ve released this season. I think they will but only time will tell I suppose.

[Doom]

I tend to round my numbers up or down to the nearest 5, because the figures are usually based on a quick look (I don't have the time to go into the level of detail I did in the past):

Josh Nicholls 15
Marc Vallerand 20
Robert Dowd 20
Mark Simpson 15
Cole Shudra 10
Kameron Kielly 15
Patrick Watling 25
Brandon Whistle 10
Scott Allen 25
Brett Neuman 25
Daniel Ciampini 20
Mikko Juusola 15

All totals assume they play a 54 game season.

I'm sure I'll be way out on some.

Regards

Doom

[ginger]

I tend to round my numbers up or down to the nearest 5, because the figures are usually based on a quick look (I don't have the time to go into the level of detail I did in the past):

Josh Nicholls 15
Marc Vallerand 20
Robert Dowd 20
Mark Simpson 15
Cole Shudra 10
Kameron Kielly 15
Patrick Watling 25
Brandon Whistle 10
Scott Allen 25
Brett Neuman 25
Daniel Ciampini 20
Mikko Juusola 15

All totals assume they play a 54 game season.

I'm sure I'll be way out on some.

Regards

Doom

215 goals from the forwards based on that, which equates to 4 per game overall on average. If Greenfield keeps his GAA to around the 2 mark, you'd think we're gonna have a good season. Might not be enough, but if we average 4/5 - 2 based on goals for and goals against, we should be there or thereabouts come end of the season

[Doom]

I tend to round my numbers up or down to the nearest 5, because the figures are usually based on a quick look (I don't have the time to go into the level of detail I did in the past):

Josh Nicholls 15
Marc Vallerand 20
Robert Dowd 20
Mark Simpson 15
Cole Shudra 10
Kameron Kielly 15
Patrick Watling 25
Brandon Whistle 10
Scott Allen 25
Brett Neuman 25
Daniel Ciampini 20
Mikko Juusola 15

All totals assume they play a 54 game season.

I'm sure I'll be way out on some.

Regards

Doom

215 goals from the forwards based on that, which equates to 4 per game overall on average. If Greenfield keeps his GAA to around the 2 mark, you'd think we're gonna have a good season. Might not be enough, but if we average 4/5 - 2 based on goals for and goals against, we should be there or thereabouts come end of the season

I've also got 35 goals from defence, which brings the total to 250, but that's not my overall team total because it assumes every player plays all 54 games, which just doesn't happen.

I've worked out over the years that I need to multiply the team total by roughly 0.80 to get to a more realistic figure.

My current totals are:

Belfast 275 x 0.806 = 222
Sheffield 250 x 0.806 = 201
Cardiff 250 x 0.806 = 201
Nottingham 245 x 0.806 = 197 (assumes Notts last two forwards total 40 goals)

All reasonably close, but you'd expect that if budgets are similar.

Belfast do seem to be ahead again (I had them in front last season), although on paper I do think they have a weaker looking defence this season, whereas we look stronger in that area.

For the record my mate does a similar exercise but with more detail and he only has Belfast very slightly ahead of us (I think he's being optimistic )

Regards

Doom

[steeler pete]

Cardiff won their 2 pre-season games with Belfast. How does that stack up against the scoring predictions? I know it wasn’t a real competitive weekend but unless Belfast were missing a key scorer, Cardiff must’ve upped their game.

There are too many possible variables across a season to make any reliable prediction interesting as it may seem.

I want us to win and will be disappointed if we don’t get some silverware this season but numbers can’t tell us how these guys will come together as a team. We’ll only see that after a few games and even then bumps along the way could still throw it all off.